The Power of L Reuteri for Skin and Gut Health with Dr William Davis
Today, Dr. William Davis delves into the fascinating world of Lactobacillus Reuteri and its impact on skin health, gut and overall well-being. From reducing wrinkles and boosting collagen to supporting muscle preservation and promoting emotional connection through increased oxytocin, this powerful probiotic strain offers numerous potential benefits. Read on to discover how L reuteri can enhance your health from the inside out and why restoring it may be a game-changer for your well-being. Make sure to read our last blog with Dr Davis here!
An Intro to L Reuteri
Lactobacillus Reuteri is a microbe that virtually everybody in the modern world has lost because of overexposure to antibiotics and other factors. If we were to go into the jungle of New Guinea or the Brazilian rainforest, the tribes that live in these areas would all have reuteri. All mammals unexposed to antibiotics have reuteri, and when we restore it for ourselves in the modern world, we see:
- A restoration of youthful musculature
- An increase in the hormone oxytocin (thereby an increase in the intensity of love, affection, generosity, and the acceptance of other people's opinions)
- An increase in libido
-
Improved social behavior
L. Reuteri and Skin Health Benefits
I also wanted to validate what happens in the skin when you restore reuteri. The experimental animal model shows that there is a dramatic increase in dermal collagen. Women get red light therapy, microneedling, and retinoic acid to increase their collagen in the dermis. The problem is they apply this to the epidermis, the external skin, but it is the dermal layer (just a millimeter and a half below the epidermis) that is the principal driver of skin health and appearance. By applying topical products, you aren’t reaching this layer because the epidermis is largely impenetrable. So what if we do it orally?
Again, one of the things that develops with the restoration of reuteri is an explosion of dermal collagen. Women love it because they either lose their wrinkles or there is a reduction in wrinkle depth. To validate this, I did a small clinical trial of 25 heavier-set women. I asked them not to change their diet or exercise but to implement these four things:
- I started them on a capsule form of Reuteri (we could not use it as a yoghurt in clinical studies)
- Marine-sourced collagen peptides
- Hyaluronic acid (collagen and hyaluronic acid are largely absent from the modern diet because of what we have been told about cutting fat and cholesterol. This caused many people to stop consuming organ meats containing collagen and hyaluronic acid.)
- Carotenoid astaxanthin to compensate for the low carotenoid intake.
Those four things are all meant to compensate for things we lost and have not been getting. We did this trial for 90 days and used skin methods like high-intensity skin ultrasound to measure the thickness of the dermis. With this, we recorded an unprecedented amount of thickening of the dermal layer, 15% - which doesn't sound like a lot, but almost every other study before this had 6%-7% over 90 days. The women were thrilled because they had more moisture, the wrinkle depth of the crow's feet and finer lines were reduced, and even some of the deeper lines in the forehead and nasolabial folds.
Even though this was a skin trial, we measured waist circumference, and after 90 days, some of the women lost as much as eight inches from their waists with no change in diet. I had inadvertently created a body composition formulation that targets the loss of abdominal fat and, I believe, increases youthful muscle. People talk about weight loss, but that's not the best way to think about things—it’s really about shape and body composition.
This has been brought to a head by the GLP 1 agonist world. So let’s say that your wife goes on a drug like Wegovy for a year (which costs around $12,000) and she loses 40 pounds. 30 pounds of this is fat, and 10 pounds is muscle. Now, 10 pounds does not sound like a lot, but think about 10 pounds of ground beef on your counter - it’s a lot. Since this drug is fairly expensive, she stops it and then regains 32 to 34 pounds of fat, with almost no muscle. The severity of insulin resistance, blood sugar, blood pressure, and inflammatory phenomena are all now worse than they were at the start. So she can either:
1. Stop the drug and have her health deteriorate worse than it was at the start
2. Can be held hostage by the pharmaceutical industry and stay on that drug forever and expose all the other side effects like pancreatitis and thyroid cancer.
It is a horrible choice. And most of us have heard of “Ozempic face” because people lose mostly subcutaneous fat and muscle. So they may be skinnier, but they look 10-20 years older. I stumbled upon a way to do the opposite and target specifically abdominal fat (and subcutaneous fat will follow because abdominal fat is the driver of fat elsewhere) while also restoring youthful muscle. As we age, we lose at least a third, if not more, of the original muscle we had when we were young - so we're doing the opposite, changing what I call shape and body composition, not just losing weight.
You created a product called Gut to Glow which is an amazing alternative to the Ozempic’s of the world. Aside from very small edge cases when it comes to obesity and things like that, I do not think it should be used as a product to lose weight for vanity. You can healthily lose weight through diet and exercise because even though you can lose it fast with a GLP-1, there is a price to pay. -Kriben Govender
Choosing Specific Strains of L. Reuteri
We have not fully compared all of the strains of L. reuteri, but what I can tell you is that we studied the L-R-D-R strain in animals and humans. We stand behind that and cannot divulge much more about it because of our three patents. We will continue to study and compare them, but we do not have a billion-dollar research budget. There are 200 plus strains of L. reuteri, and we have had the opportunity to compare five of them. So far, we cannot tell the difference between them, but imagine if we can test 50 of them in different doses - we may be able to find something even better.
There has been some skepticism about the role of dosages because microbes take up residence, but I do not think it is true. The emerging evidence is telling us that dosage does indeed matter. A great study was conducted using Lactobacillus gasseri 2055. There was a placebo, 1 billion, and 10 billion, and the only measure they made was waist circumference. The placebo had no change over 90 days. 1 billion had no change, and 10 billion had something like three centimeters of lost waist circumference. So, if 10 billion works - how great would 50 billion have been?
However, since these multi-arm studies are so expensive and none of us have the pharmaceutical budget to run a dozen tests, we are limited in how much we can learn at a time. But I would argue that in many ways, in this emerging world, the microbiome is proving to be superior to much of the world of pharmaceuticals.
I 100% agree. In these particular cases, we're talking about personalized nutrition in a very safe and effective manner that can be used ongoing. -Kriben Govender
L. Reuteri and the Immune System
So, what are your thoughts on how these particular strains are reducing waist circumference? I use a certain product called the BiotiQuest SugarShift, which is also a reuteri-based product. My entire family uses it, and we can attest to the fact that it helps to keep your body slimmer. Can you share any insights on particular mechanisms that could be at play? -Kriben Govender
Dr. Raul Cano, the scientist at BiotiQuest who designed SugarShift, conducted a small clinical trial of about 60 people, and it was shown to reduce LPS endotoxemia. When you are exposed to antibiotics, not just in prescription medicine but in your food too, there is an overproliferation of fecal microbes in the colon that can ascend into the 24 feet of the small intestine, where they take up residence. Trillions of these microbes only live for a few hours, and when they die, they release some of their toxic components - one of which is called the LPS endotoxin. Since the small intestine is very permeable, this endotoxin gains entry into it and goes into the bloodstream. This causes several problems:
-It raises blood glucose
-It raises blood pressure
-It raises markers of inflammation
-It causes the growth of abdominal fat
-It contributes to cognitive impairment and dementia
-It contributes to heart disease, coronary disease, atrial fibrillation, and heart rhythm disorders
- It contributes to skin rash, psoriasis, rosacea, and seborrhea
It plays a role in virtually all modern common chronic diseases. We have to reconsider all those diseases because if your doctor just gives you an anti-inflammatory for your fibromyalgia or an antispasmodic for your IBS, they have done nothing for the infestation of fecal microbes (which is called SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) and the endotoxemia.
L. Reuteri and Digestive Health
I suspect the reason these formulations, whether Reuteri alone or a sugar shift combination formulation, work is that they reduce endotoxemia. Endotoxemia provokes insulin resistance, which is the fundamental process driving weight gain around the waist. They reduce that phenomenon, and reuteri specifically sends a signal to the brain to release the hormone oxytocin, which has an appetite-suppressing effect.
Reuteri and some other microbes also suppress cortisol. Many modern people have abnormally high cortisol levels, which cause abdominal fat accumulation, inflammation, and higher blood sugar. Reuteri (probably via oxytocin) dramatically slashes cortisol levels. I think the major driver is the reduction in endotoxemia, which not only allows better body composition but also generates many other health benefits.
There are some other strains as well, like Bacillus subtilis, that can also help in this area. There's a product called MegaSporeBiotic, which has this particular strain in there. -Kriben Govender
Exploring The Benefits of Other Strains
Bacillus subtilis is one of my favorites for making sparkling juices. The popular strain is the HU58 strain (which is great for making yoghurt), but the DE111 strain is great for juice because it produces lots of carbon dioxide. An amazing thing to do is get a low-cost kombucha at your grocery store that is made with Bacillus subtilis, take a half cup of that kombucha and whatever volume of juice you want (just be sure the juice has no preservatives like potassium sorbate or sodium benzoate), pour that bit of kombucha into the juice, cap, agitate lightly, loosen the cap, and then ferment at 90 degrees Fahrenheit for 60 hours or until it is no longer sweet. There are many great advantages to this. For one, the sugar's gone because the microbes consumed the sugar. You will see it bubbling like mad, and then you have a sparkling juice with great benefits.
You can also do something similar with Saccharomyces boulardii, which is the cousin of Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is used to make beer and wine. You can buy Saccharomyces boulardii as a commercial probiotic and do the same thing, but this time at room temperature. At about 48 hours, check if it's sweet; if it’s not, it’s great to drink. This is the best protection anybody has against an antibiotic. If you take an antibiotic because you have an infection, it's going to disrupt your gastrointestinal microbiome. Drink the Saccharomyces boulardii juice, and it minimizes the disruption of the gastrointestinal microbiome.
Exploring Female Reproductive Health
My daughter-in-law has had two children in the last few years, and she has had no shortage of resources. She has a gynecologist, an obstetrician, a gastroenterologist, an endocrinologist, a rheumatologist, a primary care doctor, and a functional medicine doctor. With all of that support, she got virtually no good information on how to manage pregnancy, delivery, and the postpartum period.
I had to educate her and my son that a woman must have the microbe Lactobacillus crispatus in her vaginal microbiome. Many women have lost it, and if you do, you’re at a higher risk for miscarriage and early premature delivery - which are both catastrophic things. It also is incredibly important for vaginal health later in life because it restores vaginal moisture and reduces the likelihood dramatically of urinary tract infections and urge incontinence. Crispatus dramatically reduces the problem of sneezing and wetting yourself. Losing oxytocin through lack of reuteri is another big factor because this impacts the expression of breast milk.
Many ladies who don't have reuteri are also at higher risk for postpartum depression, which can be very dangerous for a child because if the mother can't bond with the child and becomes neglected, it can be very dangerous to a newborn. The restoration of reuteri has these benefits:
-Restores the ability to breastfeed
-Reduces the risk of postpartum depression
-Increases libido in other settings
-Increases vaginal moisture (combine it with crispatus and it created a synergistic restoration of vaginal moisture and sensation)
-Reduction in urinary tract infections
And that's just a start. There are all these wonderful insights coming out into female reproductive health that are critical and not being passed down to women. In a previous post, we learned about a “vaginal microbiota transfer” but are there other ways to attain this particular strain like Lactobacillus crispatus?
There's a product called Jarrow Fem-Dophilus Advanced, which has over species, but I still think it is a good source of crispatus. Other products are on the way, and you can also make yoghurt with it. It tastes like sweet cream cheese and I call it vagina yogurt. This is very preliminary, but it looks as if a woman who takes Lactobacillus crispatus orally doesn't have to have it inserted vaginally. Taking it orally has shown that it colonized the vagina and bladder. When a woman has intercourse with a man, she may pass that crispatus to him, which, in preliminary evidence, colonizes the prostate gland and reduces prostate inflammation and the risk for prostate disease. That needs better validation, but we're opening a new world of what these things can do!
If people wanna dig a little bit deeper, check out this blog post: “Achieving Optimal Skin and Mental Health”. This delves a little deeper into the science in this area. Reproductive issues are a huge problem across the world - especially in the Western world with declining birth rates and fertility issues. So anything that can help in this field, like this crispatus organism, is gonna be amazing for society. -Kriben Govender
The Importance of Prebiotics for Skin Health
Some of your recipes online and even in your book call for the use of certain prebiotics. Prebiotics are these types of compounds that the bacteria feed off, something like fos inulin. Can you let us know why you include some of these aspects in your recipes? -Kriben Govender
It is no different than putting some cow manure in your vegetable garden. If you do this, you're going to have bigger and juicier tomatoes and cucumbers. That's why it's fertilizer, it is feeding those vegetables things they need to grow and reproduce. This is the same thing with prebiotic fibres and related compounds. When we feed the microbes, they proliferate and produce metabolites that have huge benefits for us, and the one that really counts is butyrate (butyric acid). So for women interested in skin health, if you feed your microbes something like inulin fructooligosaccharides, that blooms species like:
-Faecalibacterium
-Akkermansia
-Ruminococcus
Which in turn produces butyric acid. This butyric acid makes for deeper sleep, lowers blood pressure, lowers blood sugar, reduces inflammation, and helps shrink abdominal fat. It also helps to acidify the skin. A lot of people are unaware that healthy skin is quite acidic, about 4.5 pH. Unhealthy and diseased skin, whether it's acne, seborrhea, eczema, psoriasis, or rosacea, has a pH of about 5.5.
This is a tenfold difference in acidity. We want the skin to be mildly acidic, and that's what discourages pathogens like Staphylococcus aureus and encourages the proliferation of a beneficial microbe called Staphylococcus epidermidis. The acidic pH also discourages fungal overgrowth, including such things as Malassezia and, to some degree, Candida species. Acidification of the skin is how you get better skin from the inside out.
Going back to our product Gut to Glow, the reuteri provokes an explosion in dermal collagen, the hyaluronic acid also adds dermal collagen and causes moisture retention in the dermal layer of skin, and the astaxanthin carotenoid is anti-inflammatory, which protects from sun damage. That butyric acid further acidifies the skin and protects you from blemishes, redness, and colonization by unhealthy microbes.
Wow, that's incredible. Melasma is a very common problem. So how does the prebiotic help the formation of butyrate? Does the butyrate migrate to the skin to affect the acidity? -Kriben Govender
It probably goes everywhere including the brain, skin, tongue, prostate, vagina, and liver.
The reason I did the skin trial and released a skin product (even though I know that these things can do far more than give you better skin) is to get women interested in the product. If I said that it was going to restore youthful musculature or make your coworkers like you better, they would not be as interested. But if I say it will improve their skin, they will knock down doors to get it.
I can see my wife covered with all the beauty products and all the different things that they use, so it's certainly a good incentive. But you have all these other effects that are going to be very beneficial for their health overall as well. -Kriben Govender
This does not mean you have to stop using all of your skincare products; it just means that you might be spending hundreds of dollars on hyaluronic acid serum when it's far more effective and cheaper to take it orally. By implementing this, they will see better overall progress.
The Best Prebiotics to Use
Are there any other prebiotics that could be used aside from FOS Inulin in these recipes? -Kriben Govender
I like inulin and its connection to fructooligosaccharides because it’s so widely metabolized. That’s why it’s used in SIBO testing with devices like the AIRE, which measures hydrogen gas. In labs or clinics, they often use lactulose instead, but I think that’s a mistake - especially if your SIBO is dominated by:
-Klebsiella
-Enterobacter
-Proteus
-Pseudomonas
-Staphylococcus
-Streptococcus
-Enterococcus
But what if you use the laculose that some of those microbes don't recognize and can't metabolize? Then, we will miss the severity of the SIBO, so instead, let’s choose something that is widely metabolized by as many bad microbes as possible, like FOS Inulin. That is what we use, but there are numerous other prebiotic fibers and related things such as:
-Galactooligosaccharides - which are in legumes and root vegetables
-Xylo-oligosaccharides - which are in root vegetables
-Polysaccharides - which are in mushrooms.
You do not have to memorize those; just recognize that plant matter, mostly root vegetables, have these fibres. Those are really good for feeding microbes. Hyaluronic acid also has fibre, and it is one of the few fibres sourced from animals. It comes from the brain, skin, and other organs. So when people abandoned consumption of organs, they abandoned consumption of hyaluronic acid with these magnificent effects on skin but also as a prebiotic fibre to the gastrointestinal tract. It supports butyric acid-producing species like Akkermansia and Faecalibacterium, suppresses harmful microbes, and boosts mucus production in the GI tract. It's a powerful fiber with incredible benefits, including for skin health.
Is it possible to also consume organ meats to attain some of this hyaluronic acid? -Kriben Govender
Yes, but it is hard to quantify the exact amounts, but that would be perfectly adequate. This is what our ancestors did. The challenge today is that many modern people, especially in the U.S., have grown squeamish. They're used to pre-packaged, microwavable meals and aren't familiar with real, traditional foods. Nobody’s out back chopping chickens or slaughtering hogs anymore. For most people, the furthest they might go is eating sausage in natural casings or maybe tripe. Liver can be an easier option, and you could mix it 50-50 with ground beef for a simple way to sneak it in.
Fortunately, these days, there are a lot of freeze-dried organ capsules that could be a good alternative for people to incorporate organ meats back into their diet. -Kriben Govender
Should We Avoid Wheat?
Things have changed since I wrote the original “Wheat Belly” book. At that time, it was really tough to find gluten-free foods in the grocery store or a restaurant. Now the world has changed, and it's very easy to eat gluten-free - it has become more mainstream, which is nice. But I recently drove across the state of Illinois this past weekend, and it was shocking to see how many farmers just grow corn and high-yield semi-dwarf wheat. There were thousands of acres of it, and I think these vast monocultures have gotten worse.
With this, I am concerned about our glyphosate exposure and exposure to other herbicides like chlorpyrifos. In the US, everyone has glyphosate residue in their skin, hair, GI tract, liver, and everywhere else. This is because it is sprayed and used to such extremes. I don't think things have gotten better in the way of the actual agricultural production of those products, but I think the public perception has improved. Some of the medical community started to understand because when they asked their patients how they lost weight or got their rheumatoid arthritis to go away, and they say they went wheat and grain free - they can see the results.
It sounds like your opinion is a lot more nuanced around wheat. I often hear that when people travel to Europe, they don't seem to experience the same negative impacts that we do in Australia or the US. Is there any insight that you may be aware of as to why that is the case? -Kriben Govender
That may be due to differences in the gliadin protein. The form found in some regions can be especially toxic to the gut, contributing to digestive issues, skin problems, and asthma. But the effects of wheat go beyond what’s immediately noticeable. The amylopectin A carbohydrate in wheat and grains is a major trigger for small LDL particles, which are a primary cause of heart disease. Unlike the large LDL particles pharmaceutical companies target with cholesterol drugs, small LDL particles are far more harmful. They’re prone to oxidation, stick to artery walls, and cause inflammation - lingering in the body for up to a week after eating wheat.
Wheat germ agglutinin is another concern. It’s indigestible and damaging to the gut lining, even if you don’t feel it right away. Plus, wheat contains phytates that bind to minerals like calcium, magnesium, zinc, and iron, preventing their absorption. This can lead to deficiencies, particularly iron deficiency anemia. Some women even end up needing blood transfusions or iron injections, only to see their hemoglobin normalize within weeks of cutting out wheat.
To make matters worse, modern wheat has been selectively bred to contain more wheat germ agglutinin and phytates because they act as natural pest deterrents. Unfortunately, that also means more harm to our digestive systems and nutrient absorption. So, even if you don’t notice obvious symptoms, wheat could still be taking a toll on your health.
So in terms of the traditional practices of like fermentation or making sourdough, does that reduce some of the negative impacts? -Kriben Govender
I like to compare that to low tar cigarettes. If you put a filter on your cigarette, does it make it healthy? No, of course not. It’s the same concept with wheat. If we ferment it as sourdough, we're going to reduce the amylopectin A, the gliadin, and the wheat germagglutinin, but they're all still there. And then when you bake it, you kill all the microbes, and it creates this false reassurance that it is okay to have.
How Is The Microbiome Connected to Different Parts of The Body?
A key issue we’re seeing, especially in the U.S. and possibly in other regions, is the prevalence of SIBO, where trillions of microbes overgrow in the small intestine. What’s becoming more widely understood is the concept of microbial translocation, which means that microbes move from one part of the body to another. For example, bacteria from the gut can colonize the bladder or vagina, and Fusobacterium nucleatum from the mouth, often present with gum disease, can enter the bloodstream and potentially lead to colon cancer. Some evidence even suggests colon cancer may originate in the mouth.
Addressing SIBO can often be as simple as restoring beneficial microbes, particularly those that naturally colonize the small intestine and produce bacteriocins, natural antibiotics that target harmful bacteria. A standout for this purpose is Bacillus subtilis, which is especially effective against gram-positive bacteria like Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, and Enterococcus. For gram-negative bacteria, strains of L reuteri are remarkably effective.
Instead of conventional treatments, we can create a yogurt-like product using prolonged fermentation to generate extremely high microbial counts, around 300 billion microbes per half-cup serving. Using strains like Bacillus subtilis HU58, which doesn’t produce carbon dioxide but is a strong bacteriocin producer, has resulted in over 90% success in eradicating SIBO.
Not only does this method help eliminate SIBO, but people often notice other benefits, particularly from the reuteri. After about four weeks, many report fewer wrinkles, firmer skin, increased strength, and even enhanced libido. It’s not your typical store-bought yogurt, it’s a powerhouse of beneficial microbes with transformative effects.
The Importance of Reducing Endotoxemia
Reducing or even eliminating endotoxemia has massive implications for our health. It’s becoming clear that endotoxemia is a major risk factor for heart disease, coronary disease, and atrial fibrillation. It’s also strongly linked to cognitive decline, dementia, obesity, type 2 diabetes, and even various forms of cancer. What’s exciting is that we can address this process, including SIBO and the resulting endotoxemia, using beneficial microbes. By making yogurt at home with the right strains and enjoying it with blueberries, we have a simple yet powerful way to make a significant positive impact on our health. You can find these recipes here:
How is AI Impacting Gut Health?
How do you think the rapid growth of AI and data analytics will impact research and advancements in gut health, the microbiome, and probiotics? -Kriben Govender
This could not have come at a better time. If you ever see the data generated by microbiome analyses, we're talking about millions of data points, and it's very difficult to decipher. It’s becoming clear that microbes, just like humans, don't live in isolation. We have a partner, family’s coworkers, and other people in our communities - microbes are the same way. They interact with each other via a variety of means but it's tough to decipher.
So one of the questions that often comes up is, “How come I can get reuteri from my mom at birth and as long as I didn't get exposed to antibiotics, I’ll have it for a lifetime. But if I get it as yoghurt ora probiotic, I only have it for a few days?” It's probably because we don't yet know how to construct the whole community that supports each other via shared metabolites. And I believe that kind of insight is going to come through AI data analysis.
I work with a company called Microba to do a lot of the fecal microbiome testing, and I'm aware that they have their own system to analyze how these different microbes interact with each other using AI technology. So, I'm very excited to see where that particular field is headed. -Kriben Govender
The Importance of Defining L Reuteri’s Impact on Oxytocin
I think we need to define better how reuteri causes a release of oxytocin. We’re all living at a time of record social isolation. Putting aside the pandemic, we still live with these issues:
-50% of all marriages end in divorce
-There was a 36% increase in suicide between 2000 and 2020
-The psychology community has been formally tabulating the rise of narcissistic behavior since 1963. And there's been a 45-degree incline over those few decades.
So could restoring reuteri and increasing oxytocin levels, the hormone linked to love, empathy, and generosity, contribute to greater social harmony? While it wouldn’t solve all societal issues, it could encourage more respectful and accepting behavior. Conducting studies to validate these personal reports could provide meaningful insights.
Additionally, focusing on body composition rather than just weight loss could lead to smarter health strategies. Targeting harmful abdominal visceral fat and ectopic fat deposits (such as fat in organs and muscles) while preserving or even increasing muscle mass could improve overall health. Further research is needed to understand the mechanisms behind these effects, whether through reduced endotoxemia, cortisol regulation, or other pathways.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Including fermented foods like Bacillus subtilis sparkling juice can be incredibly powerful. Many people underestimate their impact, thinking they’re just a trendy health fad, but they’re potent allies for your gut. Reintroducing fermented foods like sauerkraut or kimchi, even store-bought ones, can be beneficial, as long as they’re truly fermented.
A simple trick is to let commercially fermented foods sit on your kitchen counter for about 48 hours to continue fermenting. Or better yet, try making your own. You can use starter cultures or take some brine from store-bought sauerkraut and add it to other vegetables you’d like to ferment. For example, chopped eggplant, cherry tomatoes, red onion, and garlic cloves can become a delicious ferment when you pour in a bit of that brine.
While you could rely on the natural microbes on the vegetables’ surface, that can take about three weeks. Using fermented brine or a starter culture speeds up the process significantly. It’s simple, cost-effective, and a great way to support your gut health. Make sure to share this article with a friend who could benefit from this information!
